The Art of Motivation
What does it take to maintain motivation, even through the hard? In this episode, I’m joined by Mark Pinckard, who in 2022 was ranked #1 as the World Masters Track and Field champion for 800m, and we’re answering the question: what would happen if you learned to embrace the discomfort that comes with challenge?
We’ll be discussing how to find a way through tough situations without letting discomfort hold you back, exploring the role that resilience plays in motivation and how, by leaning in and embracing the discomfort, you can gain valuable insights and learn to push through even the toughest challenges. We’ll also be answering the question of whether the degree of difficulty is directly proportional to the reward and how to use the “big what” to your advantage.
And as with everything I share on the podcast, this is what I believe based on what I’ve read and researched. But please don’t take my word for it. Keep what sticks, discard the rest and for goodness sakes, go out and test drive it!
What You’ll Learn In Today’s Episode:
What an Iron Man is.
How to maintain motivation during the challenges.
How to use small goals to your advantage.
How to become comfortable with discomfort.
What Was Mentioned:
Mark Pinckard: Instagram
Mark’s athletic highlights:
Two-time Ironman competitor
Multiple provincial medals in 800 | 1500 | mile
Multiple Canadian medals in 800 | 1500 | mile
Provincial and Canadian record holder
Gold in 2022 World Masters 800m in Finland
Bronze in 2022 World Masters 1500m in Finland
Ranked #1 for 800m 2021 and 2022
Ideas Worth Sharing:
“You learn that you know you can do this.” – Mark Pinckard
“It comes down to belief in yourself and belief in the training you’ve done.” – Mark Pinckard
“When it has to be done, or it needs to be done, you find a way somehow.” – Mark Pinckard
“What if we didn’t define hard as bad?” – Christina Sestan
Connect with me: Instagram
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Speaker 1 0:01
Hi, it's Christina. Thanks for joining us. And welcome to the Squeeze. What if we didn't define hard as bad, I So I was supposed to go for a run the other morning, and I was just kind of dragging my heels a little bit, and just kind of going, uh, you know, this is going to be a bit hard, I don't know if I really want to do this, and I kind of pulled myself together and got myself out the door and started running, you know, a little bit of a warm up first, and as I'm running, I oftentimes hit this point where I'm like, you know, this is actually kind of hard, it's a bit uncomfortable, and you know, there's points, depending on the weather, if I'm running into the wind or if it's really cold or really hot, there's certain things that just make the run feel harder. Now, this isn't all the time. I have some runs that are great, but with some degree of regularity, I kind of hit what I call this like hard wall, and it's like my mind starts saying, like, stop, take a break, take the short route, like I'm sort of being completely badgered by my mind as I'm running, and inevitably I run through that, but it got me thinking, you know, after I got home, and of course you get the runner's high, and everything feels so great, and life seems so clear, and I was sort of reflecting back on this notion of what is hard and what I see is hard, and I thought, wow, you know, just cognitively saying something is hard, and then actually experiencing it are two different things. So, as my mind tends to do, I thought, well, like, how do you get past that now that I'd recognized it as kind of a dilemma, I thought, How do I get past that? And so I thought that this idea of motivation, which is essentially what we're talking about, that it would be really interesting to talk to somebody who is not unfamiliar with heart, and especially in the realm of athletics. So I've invited Mark Mark Pinkard to have a chat with me. So, Mark Pinkard is something of a world-class athlete. He just recently became a world champion in Masters track and field, and he has about a 12 year history of quite a series of accomplishments. We'll get into that in a little bit, and for those of you who don't know, Mark is also my husband. So, welcome, Mark. Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 2 2:47
Well, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 2:48
So, you know, I was talking about this whole idea about things being hard, and you can say in your head they're hard, but then the actual experience of it is another matter entirely. So, you must face this, and I know that you've done a couple of Iron Man, so just to recap, if there's anybody who doesn't know what an Iron Man is, what are the distances?
Speaker 2 3:10
It starts with a 3.8 kilometer swim, and then 180 kilometer bike, and then a marathon at the end of that, which is 42.2 kilometers.
Speaker 1 3:21
Yeah, so it all just sounds nice and neat and tidy, and of course, if you think about it, I think most of us probably would have a very difficult time, if not impossible time, trying to do that. So the numbers are just numbers, but the reality is I'm sure there were many times during something like the Iron Man that you faced that wall or that sense of like hardness. So, as I was saying before, sometimes on a run my mind will just ambush me with stop, pull over, this isn't working, etc. So, did you face that on that course when you were doing Iron Man? Did you come across a little bit of a wall?
Speaker 2 3:57
Probably a few times, but I think with the amount of training I've done in the past for the Ironman, that you learn that you know you can do this, and you kind of draw on that history of training to pull you through those kind of hard times,
Speaker 1 4:15
so that like that sounds great, but I want to go back a bit because I'm guessing that the actual moment of when you hit that hard, it's probably a little messier than you've described. Like, it's easy in the retelling to kind of say, you know, I pulled through it, but, like, for instance, at what point on the course, so you've got your swim, you've got your cycle, your ride, and then you've got your marathon at the end. Was there any particular point where you were just ready to, like, forget it. I'm out of here.
Speaker 2 4:43
I don't think I was ever ready to pack it in. I mean, in an Ironman, it really comes down to, I'd say, the last half of the marathon, the swim and the bike, you can get through first half of the marathon is okay, but that's when it really started. Right, so that's when the whole race can be determined, and you know it depends on your nutrition and everything else. If you've been kind of, you know, being smart with that and keeping up with it, but for a lot of people that's when you start to run into trouble.
Speaker 1 5:19
Well, it's, and it's interesting, right, because you're you're halfway through the marathon, so you're most of the way through the Iron Man. In some senses, your finish line is in sight, and I wonder if that has something to do with people sort of being more likely to hit a bit of a wall now that you're closer to, quote unquote, home. Do you think that has anything to do with it?
Speaker 2 5:40
I don't think so. I think you know, for myself, you know, the closer you are to the finish line, it's like the horse to the barn, you know, you, you, you can sense it, you can, you know, it's there, it's closer, and you'll do whatever it takes to get in there,
Speaker 1 5:54
so, so it's almost like that's a motivating factor.
Speaker 2 5:57
Absolutely
Speaker 1 5:58
interesting. Okay, so I'm going to go back to what you were saying before, because you were pulling on something that helps you get through it, and ultimately that's why I want to have this conversation. How do you get through it? So you said something like, I've done the training, so in that moment, let's say halfway through the marathon, when your body is sending all kinds of signals, and presumably you're pretty uncomfortable, what specifically do you do or say to yourself in that moment or those moments?
Speaker 2 6:27
Well, I think it comes down to belief in yourself, belief in your training you've done that you can get through this, because you've the amount of training you put into an Ironman is enormous, and you know, really, race day is, is kind of the easier of the whole thing, so you know, you have the belief in your training and your preparation, and I think what it really, you know, the way you get through that, those hard bits, and an Ironman very end, at least that last half of the marathon is, you have small goals, which means you, you know, it might meet, you know, just concentrate on making to the next aid station, or if it's not even that, it could be just the next telephone pole, and you just get to that telephone pole, and then you get to the next one, and then to the next one, and next thing you eat on, you done another 10 kilometers, and you're even closer.
Speaker 1 7:31
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Speaker 2 8:23
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 8:24
Cool. Okay. And so then, as you're doing that, does your experience of hard change?
Speaker 2 8:34
I'd say no. I think you're still struggling, but you know, you just make smaller goals, like I said, you know, you're just trying to get to your next goal, which is a telephone post or aid station.
Speaker 1 8:46
So, then, is it like a case of becoming almost comfortable with discomfort?
Speaker 2 8:53
Yes.
Speaker 1 8:54
And so, then, okay, so do the same principles apply? So, what you do in Iron Man halfway through the marathon, you break it into little goals. Do you use the same approach to say something like household finances?
Speaker 2 9:09
I'd say I don't, and I probably should, but I don't have that kind of.. there's not like a goal involved for me, that's the difference, I think.
Speaker 1 9:23
Yeah, because it's really interesting, because in the realm of athletics you are clearly competent and confident, but I think that thing that I'm really curious about is, is it translatable? And so I want to just sort of shift the conversation a little bit, particularly back to that point that you were talking about, Mark, because I think this is useful for our listeners, that when it comes down to facing something hard and then you feel your motivation wavering, that oftentimes we have techniques in certain contexts, but they don't always translate well, and I think one that really does translate is. You said before, near the beginning, and that was, you just know you've done the training, and even the fact that in the example of Iron Man, the Iron Man day itself is the easy part, it's the months and months of training prior. So, what I think you're pointing to is what I would call simply resilience, and just, you know, how I would define that, for those listening, is that it's, it's just sort of like I know that I can solve this or get through it, I don't know how, and it's probably not going to be pretty, but I've been through enough things in my life that I think I can handle it, so there's not like a specificity, and not even like what you were saying with breaking down the goals to the next telephone pole, etc, but it's kind of like you just kind of have a track record, but there's another tip that I want to draw, and I think it's a tip anyway, because I've heard it before and I've had some success, but I wondered if it could be translatable for you, Mark, and that is where you kind of step back and ask yourself the big why of what you're doing that for so obviously with Iron Man, that's easy, that's you know, a time finishing whatever, but if it came to something like household finances, which you know, like it or not, that's something we, we have to do to live in a practical world. So I'm wondering, like the big why, like pulling yourself back and saying, you know, what's the value of this to me? Do you think, and I don't know, you know, we're just speculating here, but would that be effective? Do you think to get through something difficult like household finances?
Speaker 2 11:32
Well, I think there comes a point where you know this has to be done, you have to figure out a way to get through it, and for me, I think I would draw on some help, probably, if I needed it, you know. I'd source out somebody who could, you know, guide me along, or where I'm stuck, I, you know, they could just help me through, get through that period, and then perhaps I get through the rest of
Speaker 1 11:56
it. So, so outside resource, outside
Speaker 2 11:58
resources. Yes,
Speaker 1 11:59
let's just play a little game for a second. Imagine there were no outside resources. Imagine we weren't married, you lived alone, and you had to do your household finances. What I'm wondering is, you know, could you find your way through it eventually? Do you think?
Speaker 2 12:17
I think I could.
Speaker 1 12:18
And how uncomfortable do you imagine that might be,
Speaker 2 12:22
I think, depending on what I was trying to do, it could be quite a struggle, but I think you know when, when it has to be done or needs to be done, you'll find a way somehow.
Speaker 1 12:32
So I'm kind of leading you a bit, so I'll cop to that. What I'm talking about is what I referenced earlier is becoming more comfortable with discomfort, and I think some of those things in life that we shy away from or avoid, oftentimes we think somehow we're going to find a solution that will get us through it without the discomfort, and the reason I took away the support and made you single and asked if you could just get your way through it is that I think there's actually no magic pill sometimes, and it is just we have to go through it. It's just a question of, you know, what that experience is going to be like. Are we going to be kicking and screaming and ignoring what we're feeling? Or, and this is the big or, and I practice this myself, is is there a way to lean in and not resist it, and actually feel our discomfort and feel our frustration for what it is, without trying to change it, trying to convert it, trying to shortcut it, etc. Or is that just.. does that just sound like pie in the sky stuff to you?
Speaker 2 13:33
I don't know. I think I would hope that you know, once I kind of figured a way through all of this, I would probably feel a great sense of accomplishment.
Speaker 1 13:47
Okay, so what it sounds like you're saying is, and I'm wondering this for myself, is that the degree of hardness might be equal to the degree of reward that we feel. What do you think?
Speaker 2 14:00
I agree with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1 14:02
okay,
Speaker 2 14:02
yeah,
Speaker 1 14:02
okay. So, let's switch into practicalities for a second. So, if you're listening and you're facing something hard and you feel your motivation is kind of wavering, here are three things that I've gotten from this that I think might be worth trying, and I'd love to hear about it. How it works for you. So, first of all, it's kind of like what Mark did was he kind of got real with himself, and maybe he didn't even have to get real, because he was already real with himself about the actual data of his training. It existed, it was real, it wasn't something up for debate. That time had been invested, and I think there was a certain way that would you agree, Mark, you took some kind of solace in that, that gave you some comfort.
Speaker 2 14:40
Yes, confidence,
Speaker 1 14:42
yeah, confidence, for sure. And then the other one that I was teasing out there a little bit, which is that idea of the big why, like why are you even doing the Ironman, or why do you have to do the household finances, and you guys, we could come up with a slew of other examples. Household finances is a pretty lame one, but it might be. Got to have a really difficult conversation with somebody at work. You have to discipline someone, or you have to tell somebody some bad news to pull back and look for the big why. Maybe the big why is that it's going to actually ease the partnership. You're going to be able to deal with this person without that angst in the pit of your stomach, and then, thirdly, this whole idea, and this is something I'm practicing, and I again would like to hear from you, if you experience this as well. It's that just kind of breathe it in, lean in, be curious, what does it actually mean to be more comfortable with the discomfort? What if we didn't define hard as bad, because I think that gets conflated so quickly we don't even realize what we're doing. So, these are working hypotheses. Don't know for sure, but it sounds like some of these things we know for sure. Mark sounds like they've worked really well for you and your success. So, if you want to learn a little bit more about this, or you want to learn a bit about Mark, put some things in the show notes. Thanks for being with us, Mark. Thanks for allowing me to interview you and bringing your wisdom from the world of the hard part of athletics. Thanks for being with me today.
Speaker 2 16:19
You're welcome. Thanks again for having me.
Speaker 1 16:21
Thank you. So you've been listening to The Squeeze. Thanks for joining us today. If you want to continue tuning in, don't forget to click subscribe. And as always, we want to hear your thoughts, your comments, your feedback, and challenges, if there's anything you don't agree with. Thanks for joining us, and see you next time.
Unknown Speaker 16:46
Bye.