Mastering Time Management: Debunking the Myths and Maximizing Productivity

Written By Christina Sestan

Tick tock, tick tock…Time is a precious commodity that we all wish we had more of. But have you ever wondered if time management is an impossible goal? In this episode, I explore the concept of time management and how it can be an unattainable aspiration despite the promise of it keeping us perpetually hungry.

Listen in as I raise the central question of how we manage time, from scheduling it to prioritizing it, squeezing it, slicing it, spending it, and sometimes just trying to free ourselves from it, and delve deep into two parts of time management: getting lots of stuff done fast (productivity) and getting the right stuff done (prioritization). By the end of this episode you’ll be challenged to think critically about your own approaches to time management and whether they are truly effective in achieving your goals.

And as with everything I share on the podcast, this is what I believe based on what I’ve read and researched. But please don’t take my word for it. Keep what sticks, discard the rest and for goodness sakes, go out and test drive it!

 

What You’ll Learn In Today’s Episode:

  • Why the term “multi-tasking” is misleading.

  • Why working faster is not a guarantee of better results.

  • What task shifting and task switching are and why they’re hurting your productivity.

  • How you determine what to get done on your to-do list.

  • How politics and office culture can play into time management.

  • The different types of prioritization games we play.

  • The four questions to ask yourself to get clear on what really matters.

 

What Was Mentioned:

 

Ideas Worth Sharing:

“To greater or lesser degrees, isn’t everyone looking for a better approach to managing their time?” – Christina Sestan

“Getting lots of stuff done fast … well you may as well just convert that to getting one thing at a time done well.”  – Christina Sestan

“If we spend too much time in the ‘busy box ticking’ mentality, sooner or later it catches up with us.” – Christina Sestan

“Shared calendar culture reminds me of Tetris.” – Christina Sestan

“Not once have I ever seen a headstone that said “answered all his emails” or “finished all her to-dos.” – Christina Sestan

“Giving up hope can actually be quite empowering.” – Christina Sestan

“The more things you say ‘no’ to, the bigger your ‘yes’ will be.” – Christina Sestan

 

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  • Speaker 1 0:01

    Hey, it's Christina. Thanks for joining us. And welcome to The Squeeze. Are you one of those people who says I don't have enough time? Well, it turns out it might be true, but you might not have to approach this whole thing with a real-time poverty mindset, I was just leaning over to do something recently, and for the umpteenth time, my glasses slid off my nose and fell to the floor. I cursed inwardly. This had been happening for at least a couple of weeks, and in that moment I reflected once again just how simple the remedy was. I just needed to drop by the optical place. It wasn't even that far from my house, and they could adjust it easy, right? So, why haven't I done it yet? And why, when you're listening to this some days or weeks after I've recorded it, is there a pretty good chance I still won't have done it well. Therein lies a bit of a slippery conundrum. Once upon a time, there was this guy by the name of Thomas Leonard. Some credit him as being the father of life coaching. Anyway, he brought notoriety and emphasis to this term tolerations, and that was part of all his core coaching programs. He defined tolerations as sources of irritation and distraction that we just put up with often, without realizing the extent to which they're depleting our energy and undermining our pursuit of higher goals. Leonard argued that we can free up huge amounts of time and energy when we eliminate tolerations. Okay, so my loose-fitting glasses were definitely a toleration, so why not just eliminate the toleration? But again, this sounds easy, but there's still a barrier that needs to be acknowledged, or I'm going to start beating up on myself for being an idiot. Here's the barrier: I don't have time. At least that's what I tell myself. I mean, once I get started on this line of thinking, I see tolerations everywhere. Can anyone else relate? I look at our back door handle that hasn't worked properly for eons, and you know, just to be clear, for any would-be break and entry criminals who might be listening? It's not actually a security weakness. I have a warning light on my car dashboard. It pops up intermittently. I don't know, should I do something about it? There's a pile of clothes in my closet. They either need to be dry cleaned or given away. I'm not actually sure. And then I have this calendar issue where one of my apps isn't syncing properly, and then there's a bunch of paperwork on my desk. It isn't pressing, but it's taking up a bunch of desktop real estate, so I can see it every day. So, none of these by themselves is a big deal, and arguably, even combined, they're not really showstoppers. But I also can't negate the low-grade kind of aggravation that I feel when they all add up in the background of my awareness every time I encounter them, which, as it turns out, is pretty frequent. So, do I really not have time? Well, therein lies one of the central questions of this podcast exploration today. How we manage time, scheduling it, prioritizing it, squeezing it, slicing it, spending it, and sometimes just trying to free ourselves from it. I worked with this client once, and now any of my clients listening are wondering if it's you. Anyway, this client took a lot of their workplace identity from their ability to multitask and stay ahead of what we'll just call the proverbial eight ball, you know, the one that's tripping up so many of our coworkers. Anyway, I could tell from listening to them that they were pretty proud of their system. They felt confident, and admittedly, confidence around time management - it's not something I hear a great deal of these days from organizational leaders. So, I kind of get their enthusiasm. They confronted the great organizational beast of busyness, and they'd come out on top, but as it turns out, appearances can be deceiving to greater or lesser degrees. Aren't we all just looking for a better approach to managing our time? I mean, you know, it's easy to say life keeps becoming more complex and demanding, but so far as I know, no one has yet figured out how to squeeze more than 24 hours out of this day.

    Speaker 1 4:24

    If you type time management into Google, you're going to quickly discover that there's a real who's who around efficiency expertise. In fact, you've probably heard of some of these titles - they're really big right now. How about work smarter not harder, or the four hour work week, four seconds, or this one, time management ninja, or atomic habits. I'm going to include the authors in the show notes, if you're interested in checking them out further. But, needless to say, I'm guessing there's big money and notoriety and time management these days. But let's revisit this thing we call multitasking again. So, when I probe my client further to find out, like, what are you actually talking about when you multitask, I didn't hear any surprises. So I'm going to give you a list, and I want you just to listen and ask yourself, like, do I do any of these things. So, do you send emails during Zoom meetings. How about making calls while driving, reading a report while eating lunch, writing a briefing note during a lecture, preparing slides while listening to a podcast, organizing your week while you're talking to a friend. So every part of my client's day seemed to be subdivided, and that included things at home, but to delve deeper, we need to subdivide this next part of our conversation into two parts. Otherwise, it's going to get confusing. So, firstly, let's talk about getting lots of stuff done fast, and we'll call that productivity. And then the second part is going to be getting the right stuff done, and we'll call that prioritization. So, we'll start with the first getting lots of stuff done fast. You can't honestly think higher productivity comes from being faster, can you? I mean, does anyone still think speed is key? If you witness a friend or colleague going mock three with six balls juggled in the air. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this doesn't guarantee anything, except perhaps a nice breeze as they pass. Haven't we all had the experience where your whole day has been a flurry of activity, but at the end of the day you can't really square what you accomplished, not always, but you know, sometimes you have a super productive and focused day with lots of valuable accomplishments, but I'm going to say this is the exception. I'm going to explain later when we peek into the workings of the brain. So, just for now, can we agree that working faster is absolutely no guarantee of better results. Now back to multitasking, and how important it is for me to dis-evalue of this life hack. Before we move on, first of all, the term multitasking itself is a bit misleading. You see, essentially your brain is designed to perform best with a single task at a time, such as listening to this podcast, when we're engaged in one task, both sides of our prefrontal cortex are working in harmony, but when you add in another task, example making lunch while you're listening, the left and the right side of your brain are forced to work independently, and that increases the likelihood of making mistakes. Read greater likelihood of adding ketchup instead of mayo to your sandwich, for instance. Now, just for kicks, throw in a phone call. The sum total of this so-called multitask is that overall you're going to retain less information from the podcast. You might even accidentally cut your finger and maybe give the wrong address to the person on the phone. Competing sources of attention erode task performance. If you don't believe me, look it up. Okay, so perhaps the stakes in my example aren't really that high, although if your knife is really sharp, you could be in for an unexpected visit to the ER, but that's another story. The fact is, continual multitasking drags your whole performance downwards. So, I read an online Forbes article, and in it, the author Terry Bradbury cites some research from a Stanford study that found self-identified multitaskers. Okay, so people like my client, they performed actually worse at multitasking than those who prefer to do one task at a time, so it turns out identifying as a multitasker doesn't actually translate into behavior. Maybe you've heard the example of a surgeon.

    Speaker 1 8:50

    I mean, think about a surgeon, obviously their training is key, but what if their true gift is their ability to single-mindedly focus on only one thing that's got to be reassuring if you're the one lying in pre-op, and then there's this thing called task switching, or task shifting, you may have heard about, and that's when you flip between different focuses. So, for instance, I'm let's say reviewing my credit card bill, and then I'm done. So now I'm turning towards my phone or computer, and I'm going to write an email. Depending on how quickly you do this, your results can be quite dubious. So moving from one task to the next requires your brain to shift processes and locate the new set of cognitive rules that apply to that task. So for instance, when I'm reviewing my credit card bill that requires something I'm just going to refer to it as the math rules, but writing an email requires a different set of rules that we could just simply call language rules. So, how easy is it to think that such a complex maneuver for our brains is simple, and how. Long, we would be, you see, shifting tasks rapidly leads to an efficiency. I mean, imagine if you shifted your manual transmission car as fast as you shift your brain's focus, you'd burn out your clutch in no time. And I find this a useful metaphor when I'm tempted to start flip-flopping between tasks, but you know, if you're one of those folks who's never driven a manual transmission, just take my word for it. And no discussion of task focus would be complete without a quick side trip into distraction. Ah, distraction. In an upcoming podcast, I'll be talking about the cyber effect on relationships, because, as I'm sure you already know, technology commands top billing in the category of distractions these days, but what I want to touch on here goes for all distractions, everything from the ping of your notifications to a cat barfing in the other room, I kid you not, that happened earlier, so there was a University of California, Irvine, and Humboldt University in Berlin study where researchers were actually looking at the disruption cost of interruptions, in other words, the additional time required to orient back to the original task once the interruption had been handled. In an interview with Fast Company, Gloria Mark, she was one of the co-researchers of the study. She noted that, quote, 82% of interrupted work is resumed on the same day, but here's the bad news: it takes an average of 23 minutes and 15 seconds. I purposely slowed that down to get back on task, end quote. She cited additional costs as higher levels of stress, frustration, mental effort, feeling of time pressure, and mental workload. It's as though when you're interrupted, you just know that now you have to work faster to make up for the lost time. So she went on, quote, when you switch context every 10 and a half minutes, they can't possibly be thinking deeply. There's no way people can achieve flow. End quote. So, in her research, Mark estimates interruptions every three to five seconds, and get ready for it. Most of these are self interruptions, so when we think for a second and we realize that deep concentration is actually necessary for learning, and you're confronted with the reality of all these distractions. It brings a kind of new light to the concept of these open workspaces, doesn't it? Okay, well, if you haven't already come to this conclusion yet, let me lay it out for you. Getting lots of stuff done fast. Well, you may as well just convert that into getting one thing at a time done well. But what will that one thing be? Aha, that leads us into the other half of the conversation getting the right stuff done. Hey, you're listening to the Squeeze, and if you like what you're hearing, there's a whole world of citrus couching to discover. We've got an online leadership program, it's called Citrus You, and it features those three key tools you need to be a better leader. Well, to be a better human, we also have a number of mini learning bundles that you can get into, and there's plenty more. If you're interested, you can follow us on Instagram, or check out our website@www.citruscoaching.com and the show resumes now.

    Speaker 1 13:43

    How do you determine what constitutes the right stuff? For many of us, determining this is not even a conscious process. We may never actually pull our heads out of the work long enough to ask ourselves the question, because we're too busy, which, of course, constitutes a problem, and you can probably guess then what the most common default prioritization process becomes. Yep, it's the squeaky wheel, otherwise known as the deadline, when we feel busy, and let's remember that busy is an entirely subjective term. In other words, one person's busyness is another person's day at the fair. Anyway, when we feel busy, we often experience a number of common stress responses. These are both physiological and mental, and one of which is a noticeable decrease in our ability to see the big picture, thus our inability to notice how many days we've worked late this month, because the flashing red lights of whatever deadline is in front of us is blinding us, and to someone who is feeling busy or overwhelmed, that's a really common vernacular in organizations these days, even. Without the immediacy of a deadline pushing us, we still feel the pressure to get moving. Personally, when I found myself in that kind of situation, I sure recognize the symptoms. I feel this overwhelming pressure to do something. It's kind of like, do something, anything, but just do it now, because time is wasting. What kind of quality work comes from that kind of pressure? I have entirely lost the forest for the trees, and in this state I'm probably going to be scanning for quick wins, likely of dubious importance, or at some point I'm just going to crap out altogether and look at my phone. In Stephen Covey's time management matrix, I'm referring to quadrant one, which is urgent stuff, such as crisis deadlines, meetings, and quadrant four, which is distractions, social media, irrelevant email, self-critical thoughts, and so on. And these two quadrants have an interesting relationship in that we will tend to bounce back and forth between them several times a day, but if you know the time management matrix well, then you know that the most important quadrant, quadrant number two, is goals and clarifying, and this involves things like planning, building relationships, and goal setting, but I'll talk about the contents of that quadrant in a bit. First, I want to impart on you that the reason quick wins are irresistible when we're in that chicken running around with our head cut off state, it's plain and simple. The pressure dissipates somewhat. We've paid off the dragon a bit. We get a quick bump from accomplishment. Never mind that many of those quick wins in no way move our needle in the direction we need it to go, but that's the longer term pain many of us end up feeling. Whenever I ask a group if they like ticking boxes on their to do list, the majority say yes, that's the dopamine hit, and some of us will even shortcut our to do list and do stuff that wasn't on our to-do list, but then we'll write it down, just so we can tick it off. Can you relate yet another slippery slope of managing time? It's the blinding lure of accomplishment. Stepping back, then, doesn't it seem clear that a busy or overwhelmed mindset can be a good killer of high-level and measured prioritization approaches, trying to prioritize from this place is kind of like trusting the inmates to run the asylum. I don't know if that's still an appropriate metaphor. Anyway, remember that client I was talking about before, is it possible that they might have been zipping around ticking all the quote unquote wrong boxes? Is it possible that their experience of confidence was based on dubious results? Sure, it's possible, but I also think that if we spend too many days in the busy box ticking mentality, sooner or later it catches up with us, either in the form of someone higher up the food chain noticing we're not actually meeting our metrics or someone alongside who isn't moving at Mach three, and they intervene out of pure frustration. So, what then is the best vetting system for deciding what you will and won't give your attention to?

    Speaker 1 18:13

    How about starting with the obvious, just pausing to consider the question, because remember, when people are busy, often the last thing they want to do is pump the brakes to even ask themselves this question. It's paradoxical in the mind of someone who is going on all cylinders. The only logical thing seems to be to try and go faster. I'm trusting by now you know that is not accurate. When I ask clients and students, and frankly, friends and family, how they decide what they will focus on or give their attention to. I often hear things like figure it out on the fly. It's always a good strategy, not, or they respond to the squeaky wheel. Yeah, heard it, we talked about that. Or I like this one. Well, my calendar tells me what to do. Hm, shared calendar culture. Heard of it many years ago. I was going through a certification process to be an HSD, or Human Systems Dynamics practitioner, and I had the opportunity to use time management as the quote unquote sticky issue I wanted to study. Now, a sticky issue is just like it sounds. It's one of those issues that never seems to get solved. It just sticks around. So, my study ended up stretching over two years, and it fostered a brilliant professional and personal relationship with a colleague from another organization who was also keen to learn how to beat her calendar into submission, and she's probably giggling as she's listening. She knows who she is. And after countless what are known as adaptive actions within my organizational culture, I uncovered a few valuable insights that you know they're probably worth sharing. I mean, what kind of insane person. Undertakes a two year study of their relationship to their calendar, so first and most importantly, my calendar owned my ass. Hm, sound familiar? I did what it told me to do. Full stop. I got frustrated with busier weeks and excited for the leaner ones, having someone cancel something last minute, it didn't piss me off. Quite the opposite, I do the dance of joy, unexpected gift of time. I simply did not recognize how much of my own agency I was negating, but it's not like everyone around me wasn't doing the same thing too. If you work inside an organization, you're likely familiar with the world of shared calendars and calendar invites. It's pretty ubiquitous these days. Shared calendar culture reminds me of Tetris. Do you remember that old video game? The block-shaped pieces drop from the top of the screen, and you have to twist them around in such a way that they fit seamlessly with the blocks at the bottom before they get there, so examples of the calendar culture are, you know, can you attend this meeting on Friday at 430 Sure, let me just bend time earlier in the day, so I can be there. Can you attend this recurrent meeting every Monday afternoon for three hours? Sure, let me just inconvenience 15 other people, and I'll be there, and don't even get me started on the amount of wasted hours people spend in meetings. I'll save that for another podcast, but in calendar culture it's also an optics game. Sure, I had the agency to click deny, or even maybe if someone was attempting to plant a little stake on my calendar that I didn't want there, but that could prove career limiting if I failed to consider the rank of the sender. Hello, politics, my old friend. And then there were the interesting time travel expectations that people continually set up for themselves by not blocking time between meetings at the time I was just new enough, read dumb enough to ask how they intended to get from one meeting to the next instantaneously, and then, of course, once we hit Covid and Zoom meetings, our calendars became even more insane, because we couldn't even use travel time as an excuse anymore. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to uncover the correlation between calendar culture and overwhelming stress leaves. I was in so many meetings that involved people rushing in the door, either right on the.or a couple of minutes late, and then rushing out the door right on the.or a couple of minutes early.

    Speaker 1 22:35

    The rush culture, which for me is the height of insanity, so prioritization, so far we've got on the fly, we've got the squeaky wheel, or we've got the Tetris calendar game. I just want to say, stop it, you're killing me. And speaking of killing, it's that point in the podcast where I'm now going to talk about death and impermanence, so gird your loins. Once, not too long ago, I was walking through the local cemetery. I love doing this. Do you? Cemeteries are usually beautiful places, and there's rarely anyone there. I find the headstones fascinating. I love wondering about who the people were, and every once in a while I'll take a snapshot and then come home and Google the name and try and find out the story. Anyway, I tell you this because not once have I ever seen a headstone that says something like answered all his emails or finished all her to-dos, not once. Okay. Ha ha ha. Insert laugh track here, but I also heard about a very senior and long-term employee, not that long ago. They were diagnosed with a life-threatening illness. They died shortly after, but what I heard after struck me more. Their position had been filled before their headstone had even been erected. So I'm talking about finitude, that's the state of having a limit or an end, and I think this is a very useful concept to consider in a discussion about priorities and how we use our time, and I'm not getting all maudlin in some kind of attempt to coerce you emotionally, I'm getting all maudlin on you to remind you of something that I recently had validated reading Oliver Berkman's new book, 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals. 4000 Weeks, of course, refers to the average lifespan. In his book, Berkman quickly surfaces a prickly challenge. We may think to ourselves, "Crap, I only have 4000 weeks, I should get busy. I can even feel a little blast of angst as I write that, but no, mr. Berkman has something else in mind for us, quite the opposite of speeding up. The question he poses in the book challenges us to do something unexpected, and to give you a taste, I'm going to share three of his questions with you in this podcast. Last number one, what would you do differently with your time now if you knew you were never going to get a handle on time management? I'm going to read that again. What would you do differently with your time now if you knew you were never going to get a handle on time management? Okay. Huh, like what? Wait, like, you mean this whole podcast has been a waste of time? No, not exactly. But might there be a way that time management, the way it's sold to us, is an impossible goal, and that will likely never get anywhere near to everything done yet. The promise, and remember, there's probably lots of money to be made in the efficiency market. It keeps us perpetually hungry. In fact, this starting to sound like the diet industry. Something you need to understand about me, I've wrestled with time management for years. This is so far beyond my first rodeo that if anyone should have a down pat by now, shouldn't I? And yet I don't. It's a continual dance that ebbs and flows between moments of confident control, punctuated with, oh shit, I forgot that email. I have never arrived anywhere yet. I have sunk literally boatloads of time into the process. So, is mr. Oliver Berkman suggesting that I stop trying? I don't think so. I think it's more about expectations, organizing my time as best I can, but maybe drop some of the angst associated with trying to get it right, because that's never going to happen, man. Talk about lowering your standards, which leads to another poignant question from the book number two. In what ways have you yet to accept the fact that you are who you are and not the person you think you ought to be? Think that deserves a second read. Number two, in what ways have you yet to accept the fact that you are who you are and not the person you think you ought to be. Personally, I really love this one.

    Speaker 1 27:07

    I think so many people see their life as a journey towards becoming who we think we're supposed to be. After acknowledging clients for their courage or vulnerability in my sessions, I've often heard them say, okay, yes, thank you, but I still have work to do. I've heard it so many times I've lost count. But in a refreshingly direct style, Berkman disavows us of that notion by reminding us no one really cares what we're doing with our life, and that we don't have to like earn our 4000 weeks. It's actually all an inside job, and for me, as something of a recovering high performer, there's like tremendous freedom in this question, because it gives me permission to ask how I would actually enjoy spending my time, and I think that is a whole lot easier to access when I'm not trying so hard to grow into the person I'm supposed to become, and here's another question, Question number three: How would you spend your days differently if you didn't care so much about seeing your actions reach fruition? Might as well do this a second time. We did all the others twice. Question three: How would you spend your days differently if you didn't care so much about seeing your actions reach fruition. Okay, hold up a moment now. Why isn't that the point of life to make something of yourself, to leave a legacy, make a difference? But then suddenly, wham, who cares? So to address the question, Berkman references the quote casual catastrophe, that's a phrase that Adam Gopnik used to describe a commonly held assumption that the measure of a good or bad parenting technique should be measured on the basis of whether they produce good adults at the end of the process. In other words, if your kids grow up and don't turn out to be jerks, you've done well. Congratulations, but Gopnik and Berkman are critical of this, and then Berkman reflects back what might be an even more generalized version of this sentiment that I think is applicable to everyone, not just parents. He thinks that the true value of how we spend our time is always and only to be judged by the results, that he thinks that that is something that a lot of us hold to, and that just sounds well depressing, not leastwise, because it completely rejects the present moment, which is what Berkman and Gopnik take issue with. I suppose the idea of letting this go feels both invigorating and a bit terrifying. I mean, How exactly are you expected to live this way? How will you ever get anything done? Will you want to get anything done? And isn't time ticking like right now? So this next bit might strike you as a bit of a depressing downer, but let's just try it on. It's just that giving up hope can actually be quite. Empowering. Okay, maybe not altogether. That's probably too much of a cold shower for most folks. But how about the idea of giving up hope that you're going to get everything on your to-do list done, not to mention your bucket list, if you have one. I mean, if you went back to all your lists and looked at them through the lens of which ones were there to ensure fruition of something? We're talking in a personal vein here. I mean, obviously our job responsibilities require outcomes, but what if we were looking at our list through, you know, the ones that would help you become more of who you ought to be, or maybe just another attempt to finally, and at long last, arrive at time management. If you looked at your list through those lenses, how many things could you just let go of? Half of them, a third of them. There's this thing we do to manage our anxiety, and it goes like this: someday I'll climb Mount Kilimanjaro, or someday I'm gonna start my own business, but will we? How many of these things do we hang on as a way to perpetuate the great illusion that we will have enough time to do everything we want to do, which is really just another way of saying we want to be immortal. I agree, though, with Berkman, no matter how you slice and dice it, you will never complete everything you want to complete.

    Speaker 1 31:23

    So, perhaps you just need to swallow your medicine, get out your scalpel, because the more things you say no to, the bigger your yes will be. That's the hidden gem in this approach. You see, the experience of keeping all those browser tabs open, or perpetually clicking through the channels on TV, it's the same process as stacking our to-do lists and bucket lists. Look, this is true adulting at its finest. It's wearing the big boots and saying, okay, I know I'm not going to live forever, and many things on my to-do list will never get done. That's just the way it is. So, I've decided not to stress out about it, and crack on with the ones that matter, as much as you'd like to hear me say, "Oh, everything's going to be okay. They're not. Turns out Berkman has even more medicine for us. Quote, "The world, he says, "is filled with uncertainty and tragedy, and all you can do, in fact, all you ever have to do is the next right thing. End quote. There will always be another shiny new time management tool to help you fend off your finitude and tease you with the getting everything done, but will you have you ever? Why not try approaching this whole thing with less time poverty and more present-centered wealth, so let's recap. Stop multitasking, it's annoying, and it doesn't work. And there are even some early studies that suggest you could actually be harming your brain by forcing your focus to divide, but take - don't take my word for it. Go and look it up. That's why I didn't include any specific citations in the show notes. Rushing is so yesterday continually ask yourself how you want to decide what you give your extremely valuable attention to, because remember what you don't change you are in effect choosing, and above all, you don't have time, but that's no reason to go crazy. So, as with everything I share, keep what sticks, discard what doesn't, and if you're unsure, for goodness' sake, go out and test drive it. I wish you much peace of mind as you embrace your precious finitude, you So you've been listening to The Squeeze. Thanks for joining us today. If you want to continue tuning in, don't forget to click subscribe. And, as always, we want to hear your thoughts, your comments, your feedback, and challenges. If there's anything you don't agree with, thanks for joining us, and see you next time.

    Unknown Speaker 34:02

    Bye.

Christina Sestan
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